Corvid Dragon ([info]corviddragon) wrote,
@ 2004-05-12 16:51:00
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Current mood: blah
Current music:Gloritone - Swan Dive

I was involved in a discussion over on the IYE forums about... I don't know, politics and religion, I guess. It's all kind of immaterial, except that Nathan and I were pretty much coming from the same place, but Nathan managed to earn the respect of his opponent, whereas my arguments were dismissed as insults. I didn't, at the time, consider them insults, primarily because I felt the few things I was saying that might be construed that way were still true: He can't put a sentence together, and it hurts my head to try to figure out what he was trying to say when I'm just going to disagree.

Anyway, the point is that I always felt myself somehow separated from the traditional state of Internet "discussion," where usually the shortest possible route to invoking Godwin's Law is travelled. That didn't happen this time, but largely no thanks to me, who willingly sprinkled profanity all over his supposedly "thoughtful" and "even-handed" post.

It's not especially important: As far as I can tell, Robert is a tool who is able to insist that we all think for ourselves rather than repeat CNN MTV Hollywood "nonsense," yet draws upon a Christian site for his second- or third-hand history and analysis of Islam. What is important is that I came off no better, just another pompous, self-righteous fuckwad from the other side of the spectrum. It belies something I've always considered one of my strengths, the idea that I'm exceptionally good at seeing the other side and being willing to compromise, admit fault, et al. It's one of the reasons I'm pretty good at my job: I have no problem apologizing to some irate Brooklyn fuck because I can't hear him when he's the one on a shitty cell phone outside under an intercom speaker on a windy day in NYC. I like to think I'm pretty open-minded, and, to put not too fine a point on it, humble and compassionate. Clearly I need some work.

Meanwhile, I just read a random column at Yahoo! Sports about Mr. Kevin Garnett, wherein it was noted that selfishness isn't always bad. I'm not one of these nuts who insists that sports are a great metaphor for life at large, but it's a worthwhile and timely reminder to myself. As I'm fond of saying, "you are the center of your own universe." Ultimately, while selflessness is mostly admirable1, it can also be dehumanizing. Anything taken to its logical end is carcinogenic, right? To that end, well, I don't know. Not a damn thing was accomplished on the thread, anyway: Robert thinks Islam == evil, and that wasn't even what I thought we were talking about.

And anyway: suppose Islam is evil, because Muhammad explicitly said to put everyone to the sword if they don't convert to Islam. Then... what? Does that mean Islam needs to be stamped out? Should we kill everyone who won't convert from Islam? Doesn't that make us evil?

I heard a woman at my work today say, "They don't follow the rules. Why should we?"

Um. Because we're the good guys, remember?

I thought it was an original thought, but then I read about Senator Inhofe's comments, and discovered she was, as usual, just parroting. Ah well. I'm not even sure which I'd have preferred it been.

I typoed this as "admiral" the first time. Hee hee.




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[info]dexeron
2004-05-12 06:42 pm UTC (link)
Grabbing one of your points:

Yes, Islam is evil... BUT, by that judgement, so is Christianity, Judaism, and possibly every other major religion. Yet, the vast majority of christianity are NOT the vocal minority that shouts hatefully at gays, nor the nutjobs who bomb abortion clinics, despite the words in their scriptures telling approvingly of genocide of heathen nations in the "way" of God's chosen people.

Likewise, the majority of muslims are devout, peaceful people. It's such a hard line to draw... it's so tempting to blame the religion... or religion as a whole... yet religion has always also had its great triumphs: bhuddism, for a large part, tempered (though not totally) the blatant homocidal insanity of medieval japan into a realm where honor and charity and kindness were held as paramount... at least in theory, if not often followed. Religion has inspired art, thought, and when NOT in the hands of power mongers or lunatics, has been shown to actually be a beneficial and healthy componant of human existance.

I don't blame Islam for the things SOME muslims do. I blame the specific people who did them. Your friend is permitted his opinion on Islam, but it's unfortunate that there are no easy answers, and no blanket group to target, and/or destroy.

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[info]daisho
2004-05-13 05:46 am UTC (link)
*nod* Generalising about a large group is the lazy way to deal with an issue, because addressing problems with individuals is that bit more complicated. :/

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